Introducing "Cliff's Edge": dvm360's new veterinary oncology podcast

Did you know that dvm360 is launching a new podcast?

On this episode of “The Vet Blast Podcast” presented by dvm360, host Adam Christman, DVM, MBA, sat down with Craig A. Clifford, DVM, MS, DACVIM (Oncology), to talk about his new podcast at dvm360, “Cliff’s Edge.” This new podcast is aiming to bridge the gap between specialty care and general practice in veterinary oncology.

Below is a partial transcript, edited lightly for clarity

Adam Christman, DVM, MBA: Well, let's talk about the name of this podcast. It's called “Cliff’s Edge.” It's a clever nod to your name, of course, but it also suggests being at the forefront of medicine. What does the edge of discovery look like in veterinary oncology right now?

Craig A. Clifford, DVM, MS, DACVIM (Oncology): So I joke with my friends who are surgeons that how many ways can you cut a cruise ship? You know, what are we really doing that's different? In oncology, literally daily, it’s leaps and bounds that we’re growing, understanding the genetics, and that’s…the whole One Health aspect. There's a comparative oncology branch that is set up with NIH [National Institutes of Health] to look at animals as models for disease in people, and many of the cancers are very similar among species.

So we have exploded in the new discoveries looking at the genetics of cancer…. Ten years ago, if a [patient] had cancer A, everybody got the same thing. Now, based upon their genetics, one gets drug A, one gets drug B, and one doesn’t need anything, so what we’ve learned has been incredibly important, and that is not something just for the oncologist; that’s going to be something for primary care.

And the other big thing is, I do a lot of work with our partners in industry, and they have seen that the oncology market is massive, but there's only a small number of oncologists. So really, to market a new drug to, say, 550 oncologists is not really going to be helpful. All of the new diagnostics and all of the new specialties are being marketed specifically for primary care.

So…it’s also going to no longer force silos because primary care is going to handle one aspect of the treatment, and potentially, the oncologist may handle the other aspect of it. It's actually going to force better collaboration, which I think is great.

Christman: That really is, and you are seeing such a more proactive approach to oncology, with liquid biopsy, and we're trying to have a better conversation. Individualized care, to your point, exactly. We're looking at breed-specific wants and needs. That's got to be very exciting from where you started as an oncologist, where you are now, because that wasn't back then. There, there was none of that, and so now we have all these great conversations that we can have with our patients. I think it's great. I mean,

Clifford: Without question, previously it was chemotherapy, and it's a shotgun. Kills everything that grows, good and bad. Now we truly have targeted drugs, and we have literally the same types of things from physician-based medicine. So all of it is trickling down, and oncology is truly growing massively. We now have multiple oncology journals for it. So that's part of what this whole thing is, it is to be able to take this and bring it to the primary care and show how this can benefit their practice.

And really, my goal is going to be to empower them…. A perfect example is in regards to staging. So when I talk to lay people, I say staging is where is it within the body and how healthy are you. Oftentimes, a cancer diagnosis, the primary care just sends it to the specialist. Why? There's a workup for that. That can be done in your practice. There is no reason. My big thing, and you've heard me scream this to the heavens, is these are veterinary tests. They're not specialist tests. So there's no reason a primary care can't be doing a lot of these diagnostics. So my hope is that that's going to start to spread, and we start to see more of.

Christman: That's great. I mean, we're already seeing it in cardiology. We're seeing that we're staging for kidney disease. So it's no different than dealing with oncology. And I know it can seem overwhelming for primary care professionals. And the goal of this podcast is really to break down some of those barriers, and the fact that within the oncology specialty, there is medical oncology, surgical oncology, radiation oncology, is what we’re hoping to achieve with parts of the podcast.

You can listen to the full episode here, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, be on the lookout for the first episode of “Cliff’s Edge” launching soon!