Q&A Stuck in the red zone? How veterinary teams can reset after conflict

Bridget Rollins, EMBA, a senior healthcare executive and founder of Kings Consulting, joined Adam Christman, DVM, MBA on a recent episode of The Vet Blast Podcast for a candid conversation about the red zone, the moment when frustration takes over and thoughtful communication goes out the window. Rollins explains how to spot the early signs, why triggers are so personal, and how emotional intelligence helps veterinary professionals respond instead of react. She also shares her step-by-step framework for turning tough conversations into stronger working relationships.

Below is a transcript of the conversation, lightly edited for clarity.

Adam Christman, DVM, MBA: Okay, let's talk about this red zone because this can be very concerning—we’re talking about in veterinary medicine—so, when someone says, “I'm in the red zone,” what does that actually look like in real life, and how do most people completely miss early warning signs?

Bridget Rollins, EMBA: Before I jump into that, I think it's important that with today's conversation, people understand that there needs to be a little bit of emotional intelligence involved. Meaning, at a very high level, “how do I interpret the way I'm feeling, as well as how do I interpret others around me,” right? So, there's kind of the introspective part as well as the social piece, so you're never going to be able to engage in productive conflict if you completely lack EQ, or emotional intelligence.

So, to answer your question, “what does it look like when we're in this red zone?” at the end of the day, they are triggered. That's what it means. It looks like an emotional overreaction. It could be defensiveness, or you might be attributing negative intent towards others versus assuming best intent if you were in a less triggered state of mind. So, you're pissed off at him. That's what's happening here.

What happens is, people shift quickly from a thinking state to a reactive state. Some early signs, which could be subtle, might be irritation. Now, to be fair, you could be hangry, so [it’s important to] be able to identify that. But you might feel threatened, and it may not be physically threatened, right? It could be emotionally threatened, or kind of a loss of control, if you will, and unfortunately, by the time people recognize this, where somebody could actually say, "I am in the red zone,” it's too late because they're already in a reactionary cycle.

Christman: You know what I think of? Have you ever heard of the amygdala effect? A perfect example is when someone cuts you off. It's like, your car is an extension of your home, and so you get really protective. It’s like, you black out, and you just instantly do not use your emotional intelligence. You don't process anything. There’s a chemical change that allows you to have that road rage. So, I think of those moments of those red zones, and you have to just stop and reflect. Have a moment to breathe a little bit.

What are some of the common emotional triggers that send otherwise reasonable adults straight into reaction mode at work?

Rollins: Great question, Adam. I think it's important to recognize that triggers are actually very personal, meaning what could trigger you may not trigger me, and vice versa. Oftentimes, these triggers are rooted in past experiences or prior emotional patterns. It could [even] go back to childhood, for that matter, right?

So again, when we're talking about a trigger, it's going to be a perceived threat towards your identity, your values, or perhaps a specific behavior that you find particularly provoking or frustrating. That could be somebody cutting you off when you're mid-sentence. The thing to recognize, especially in vet med, is that we always hear about burnout and compassion fatigue and being short-staffed. If you are perpetually in that physical state of exhaustion, you are going to run a higher risk of becoming more emotionally triggered much quicker than if you're rested or returning from vacation, where, again, you've got a little more control over how you're feeling.

Christman: I think about that a lot. When you think about what we do at work every day, there's such highs and lows, and it can happen so quickly.

To your point, we all have different triggers, of course. Say, for example, a veterinarian had to euthanize a cat, and they just had to lose their own cat. So, talk about a triggering, jarring moment, the fact that they had to do something like that. But on top of that clients can be dissatisfied with costs of care. My gosh, there's a lot in there, right?

Rollins: Yeah, one bit of advice for anybody listening who might be having difficulty really grasping this, they may be thinking, “well, okay, I hear what you're saying, but I don't know what my trigger is.” What I often recommend is, the next time you find yourself in an argument or a really uncomfortable situation where maybe you end up crying, the next day I want you to think about that scenario and really dissect what happened. “What happened to upset me or make me cry and become angry towards this person?” You can actually start to put together a list where then you're able to say, “okay, I'm triggered when this type of scenario happens.” Or, again, going back to the values, one of my core values is integrity. So, early on, I learned that a trigger for me is if somebody was suggesting that I was lying to them, because integrity is a core value of mine, and I pride myself in being transparent. And so, if somebody just said you're lying, it would set me off. And I really had to dig in and do the work to understand that.

Christman: I love that. One of my core values is character. Because I’m in the social media space, that's important to me. Character to me is always doing the right thing when no one's watching, so when someone says, “oh, he’s so fake, that’s not the true Adam Christman,” it is triggering.

I want to talk about neuroscience, because sometimes even the smartest ones in the room don't know how to say it right or whatnot. So, a good intention's really there, but they say the exact wrong thing during conflict, even when they know better.

Rollins: Yes, that's a great point, actually. It's important to understand that once you are triggered, whether or not you recognize that, your brain has now become a little primal, if you will. So, it has shifted into a reactive survival state. And truly, think about it: fight or flight, right? So, this is your current state of mind, and that's why, when you're not triggered you can be completely reasonable and analytical. You may even not be very emotional during a conversation.

Now, what can also happen, is when people are triggered, they might start assigning negative motives without evidence, right? Where we kind of go into this negative frame of mind, and that emotional intensity really overrides logic, intention, and even communication skills.

Like you said, it really is like seeing red. You forget what you learned as an adult, how to effectively communicate with others, and so really, what they're responding to is that narrative in their mind versus the reality that's in front of them.

Christman: Yeah, it's very jarring when you have a leader [whose] intention is there, but maybe they're tone deaf during a conflict, or they just don't know to read the room when something like that is going on. What about the toll that this has? So, when you have some sort of a conflict and the morale is low, burnout's happening, maybe the performance is not as good, the technician's not playing to their strengths, or the same for the veterinarian or CSR.

So, what's the cost of unmanaged conflict, and what are the hidden consequences leaders underestimate the most in that?

Rollins: Yes, this is huge, Adam. So, if we do not appropriately manage conflict within the hospital setting—or for that matter, any business setting—what you're going to start to see is that it will deteriorate the morale of the team. That's going to look like chronic stress, emotional exhaustion, wasted time, and loss in productivity; morale decreases and teams start to become disengaged. There's typically increased turnover, because now it's a quote-unquote toxic environment. Really, what's happening is a culture of negativity and poor communication starts to compound over time.

Now, I don't want to be the doom and gloom episode of your podcast here, so there is hope. What I mean by that is, I want to highlight a few of the benefits of a culture that embraces conflict resolution. What that can look like is improved communication, psychological safety, improved relationships, open information sharing, and reduced stress, because now we're not living in our heads and we're not conflict avoidant. We're engaging each other in communication, working through conversations that might be a little bit uncomfortable, and in doing that with both parties, assuming best intent. It's actually going to strengthen those relationships.

Christman: Yeah, it’s like walking into an exam room or a hospital, and you see that one person that you just don't want to talk about because there's an elephant in the room, so you literally go the opposite way. I’m curious to get your thoughts on this because it's probably human nature. So, what happens? You fester and you don't talk about it, right? But you just quote-unquote file that away. You go about your day. Maybe something else happens. You don't call it out again, and then you fester. And then, all of a sudden, you have this blow up that happens out of nowhere, and you're fighting over something so stupid, like maybe the way you're restraining a dog, and we're like, "What are we doing?”

So, my question to you is timing of a conflict: when is the right time to have something like that? Do you keep them bottled up for a little bit? Do you file them away? Do you pull the person aside when it's happening? What does that look like?

Rollins: That's a great question. I also want to mention that part of the damage that can happen is not only bottling it up, but what I call it campaigning. So, you're avoiding the person you're pissed off at, but you're campaigning to your other peers, “Don't you hate the way Sally is? Isn't she such an elephant?” and that's not even the issue at hand.

So, to answer your question, though, “okay I’ve identified that I'm in the red zone, I'm triggered, I have a concern that's worthy of a conversation with an individual. How do we do that?” So, first and foremost, please do not have the conversation or attempt that convo when you are still triggered. You have to be an adult and be willing to recognize, “I'm really upset right now. I need to sleep on it.” And trust me, I feel the pain because many years ago, if you would have met prior Bridget, Bridget was a fighter. She wanted to talk you to death while triggered and win at all costs. Ask me how that went, Adam. Horribly.

Christman: Well, you're getting your PhD, so. . .

Rollins: Well, there was an awakening that had to occur, and that involved me recognizing, “don't do that, you're not going to have a positive outcome.” So first and foremost, you’ got to get back to the reasonable state, and it may take you a couple days. Next, you need to ask yourself clearly to articulate to yourself, “what is the issue? Because if I can't articulate it now that I've calmed down, why I'm upset, how are you going to have a conversation with somebody else?” It really could be, to your earlier point, a multitude of variables that led to a blowup over nothing, and maybe the right decision is, “I'm sorry for overreacting. I was really hungry. I just I worked a 10-hour shift, didn't get a break, what have you. Not that it's an excuse, but I acknowledge I misbehaved,” right? Now, assuming that you feel like, “no, this is important, actually maybe a boundary was crossed,” or “this person kind of does this to me all the time, and I'm not okay with it. I need to address it to be an advocate for myself.”

Now, you need to approach that person when you're back in the state of reason and logic, and this is what people get wrong. You may have been sitting with this for a couple of days. That person may not have thought twice about what happened. You cannot now go verbally vomit on them because you're ready. You actually need to say, "Hey, Adam, you know there's something I want to talk to you about that happened a couple days ago. Is now a good time?” You don't know, did Adam have a horrible night? Did Adam have a horrible day where emotionally he's not in a good place to have this kind of conversation? And if I want the convo, the goal should be: I want a positive outcome, and you have to be willing to accept Adam saying, “it's really not a good time, how about next shift that we see each other? and be willing to accept that. And then it's fine to revisit it later, but this is where we have to articulate what you perceived happened and be vulnerable to share how it affected you.

In my example of integrity, it might be, you know, “I felt like you were insinuating that I was lying, and that actually really hurts me because it directly goes against my moral character, and I don't like that.” And sometimes you'll find the person say, "Oh my God, I was joking. I'm so sorry. I didn't realize.” And you guys can kind of work through it.

Now, if it's boundary setting, an example that I use in the clinic is let's say you're teaching a new hire, you're showing them the ropes, right? You're the person onboarding, but then you have a know-it-all coworker that likes to interject, and sometimes unnecessarily this person interjects and it embarrasses you because you're the trainer for the new hire. But now because they corrected you, you're a little embarrassed to be able to say, “I think you probably want what's best, but I've noticed that when I'm showing new hires around, you're constantly interjecting, and it makes me feel like I'm losing credibility with them. Is that your intention?” And then you kind of set the boundary of, “listen unless I'm about to do something that will cause harm to a patient, by all means, interject. I would prefer that you and I talk privately and not in front of a new hire.” You set that boundary and then you follow up with them. You know, later on, it could be a week, it could be a month. It is important that if you have the courage to have the convo, to circle back and say, "I just want to thank you for taking me seriously. It was really hard for me to have that conversation with you, but I've noticed a change, and I just want you to know I appreciate it.” Now we're building trust and psychological safety.

Christman: One thing that I always encourage employees is to have that autonomy, to have that conversation without having to worry about going to their manager or their supervisor—of course, there's times when you need to. You should be able to feel empowered and have that psychological safety, and you talk through things and you move on. I feel like this is just an unpopular opinion.

My experience, what I'm seeing from going around the country and seeing practices, is that it's gotten lost a little bit, and people use the manager as the scapegoat, to be the third party, to be the conflict resolver. And I always feel like back in the day you could just have a nice, respectful one-on-one. I just feel like you can have that ability today. What are your thoughts on that?

Rollins: You know, I agree, Adam. Call me old school, but I think things have shifted, and I think back to how I prepared my son for school. He’s 19 now, so you know, kudos to me, he survived. I don't know how I did that. But when he was entering grammar school, I was always fearful of bullies. You can correlate this to being at work too, right? And what I taught him was to be an advocate for yourself, number one. So, never being afraid to set a boundary, regardless of who it is, including a teacher or, in the case of work, it could be the owning veterinarian, your manager. I don't care about hierarchy. You have a right to set a boundary professionally and appropriately, but also giving people power in their words. There are some very hurtful words and phrases that people use now. If you use those towards me, let's just say you call me dumb, okay? And that triggers me. But really think about it. If I don't react, where do we go? You didn't get a rise out of me, so I have effectively removed power from that word, and that's kind of what I taught my son. I would say, "Are you dumb? No. So then, that's more a reflection of the person doing the name calling or misbehaving. So maybe don't take everything so personal. P.S. It's not about you.”

Christman: Yeah. Right.

Rollins: As much as we think everything is about us, it's sometimes not.

Christman: Yes, yeah, I love that, it’s so true.

Okay, I know you talk a lot about productive conflict frameworks. Walk us through a little bit of your step-by-step approach with that. What actually changes when people follow through with that?

Rollins: So again, going back to really setting the framework of, first and foremost, is now a good time to talk, and being willing to accept that it’s not. Assuming the two of you agree, yes, let's talk. You should do it in private or outside, like, not in the middle of treatment. It’s not like we're going to go gang war style with this, right? We don't need to put on a show. It really should be more intimate. So, the two of you have to be able to articulate the problem clearly. If you can't, you can't engage in conflict because people are not going to be able to understand what it is you're talking about.

So, being vulnerable to even say, “you know it really hurt my feelings,” or “it really made me feel like you don't trust me” or whatever the end result was, invite a response. I know people will be nervous, I suggest practicing it at home in private so you can get a little more comfortable if you're not used to engaging in conflict.

It's like any skill; it takes time. Inviting that response where I'm not going to verbally vomit all over you. I'm going to ask, "Was that your intention?” or "I'd like to better understand where you were coming from,” and let them tell you, "Yeah, I actually think you're dumb.” Okay, well now we fight. I'm done.

Christman: Now we throw it down.

Rollins: Now we go outside.

But like, find out “what did you mean when you did that?” right? Speak only for yourself. This is huge. Do not, and people do this because they're not confident in themselves, where they'll say, "Well, everyone thinks you're dumb.” And what I have said in those scenarios, “then I will talk to everyone one-on-one and let them tell me to my face that that's their thought. But right now, you're in front of me, so tell me what you think,” because it's really easy to not own your words if you're kind of trying to contribute them to someone else, and “I'm just the mouthpiece for the group,” right?

Christman: Right. Yes.

Rollins: So, you have to own it, and then explore solutions depending on what it is, right? Like in my example with you with training, I kind of said, “well, if I'm not going to cause harm, and you're not trying to prevent that, could we just talk in private if you're noticing something that you want to offer advice on?” And if they're like, “I don't know.” I respond, “well, what do you propose? What do you think is fair for how we move forward?” It's important that you wrap that up because you're not going to get anywhere if you say, “Adam, I'm really upset. You made me upset. Blah blah blah.” Then how do we move forward? Agree on a plan and follow up.

Christman: As we're wrapping up, Bridget, I want to share one thing with you and get your thoughts on this too, because it's great to have the conflict resolution. I give a Disney vibe kind of a talk and say, “be like Elsa and let that go!” right? Like, don't hold on to a grudge. You talked it out, you hugged it out, you moved on. Maybe you agree to disagree. Move on. Don't let that build or fester and create additional conflict for the employee, right? You don't need that.

Rollins: Yes, I could not agree more. I think honestly that some of that is maturity. Some of that is just natural evolution of an individual, depending on where they're at. I've entered the phase I call my soft girl era, where I'm not trying to fight you in the street anymore. That was decades ago, right? Now I'm using my words. I'm verbally sparring, you know?

Christman: Yes, yeah.

Rollins: I kind of joke, but there is some seriousness behind that, of yeah, don't hang on to things. There's too much going on in life, you don't need to harbor resentment or negativity because it's going to age you poorly.